18:11:19 De Dr. Alexander Araya López à Tout le monde: Do you know the app ExPlane? It is a similar effort to track aircraft noise and you can use it all over Europe. This is the description website: https://explane.org/ 18:11:29 De Dr. Alexander Araya López à Tout le monde: The data is also open access for anyone 18:12:09 De Elaine Miller à Tout le monde: I use ExPlane here in the US. 18:12:23 De Dr. Alexander Araya López à Tout le monde: Reacted to "I use ExPlane here i..." with 👍 18:12:32 De Colin Shearn à Tout le monde: What is the source of data? ADS-B? 18:13:16 De Bob à Tout le monde: Can the data be used in court cases? 18:13:58 De Colin Shearn à Tout le monde: Is this recording General Aviation/light aircraft as well? 18:15:37 De Don Jackson à Tout le monde: Likely folks are already aware of the OpenSky Network: https://opensky-network.org They are focused on flight tracks, not noise 18:16:08 De Dr. Alexander Araya López à Tout le monde: The app was created by a group campaigning against noise and other issues in Amsterdam. I know they have used these data to fight the claims made by the airport, but I am not an expert on their data. You can contact them directly in Twitter: SchipholWatch or their website: https://schipholwatch.nl/ 18:16:58 De Jeff Lewis à Tout le monde: ADS-B was developed to reduce ATC and pilot labor costs, to increase automation of both flying and flight control/surveillance. It happens to also provide an outstanding way to collect digital data on flights, for mitigating impacts. 18:17:25 De Elaine Miller à Tout le monde: Reacted to "ADS-B was developed ..." with 👍 18:17:31 De Jeff Lewis à Tout le monde: Here in the U.S., our Congress (in the House) is pressing to block all ADS-B data, to protect pilots. Absurd, right?? 18:17:54 De Elaine Miller à Tout le monde: Reacted to "Here in the U.S., ou..." with 👍 18:18:14 De Richard à Tout le monde: Reacted to "Here in the U.S., ..." with 👍 18:19:08 De Martin Kessel à Tout le monde: EANS dat are used at court, at research and from many stakeholders . We compare permanently our measured noise values with others, such as the airport. we have the same values measured. The EANS system and the our program is certified by the UBA Umweltbundsamt, that is a official body of the government in Germany. 18:19:20 De Bob à Tout le monde: Does NADP2 cause lower altitudes at larger distances from the airfield? 18:19:36 De Don Jackson à Tout le monde: Here is some information regarding my work with the MONA project, we are focused on both flight tracks and sound-level measurement in the San Francisco Bay Area (USA, California): Paper: https://www.mdpi.com/2673-4591/13/1/6/pdf Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aue7kgoRyHE 18:20:07 De Dominique Lazarski à Tout le monde: NADP1 or NADP2 are chosen depending on the area and the population 18:20:25 De Bob à Tout le monde: I experienced this, ~17 km from Schiphol's Polderbaan! More noise! 18:23:03 De Martin Kessel à Tout le monde: we could receive all kind of data and transfer it into our system. Your data send in are visibible 5 min. later like you see today on wwww.eans.net These values are stored and could be seen whenever you want to see the again. We show as well tables comparing noise values in longterm studies. 18:24:11 De Richard à Tout le monde: Hi George, is aviation noise and /or emissions actually regulated once a plane has been licensed by the Greek authorities. In the UK the aviation industry has many noise and emission exemptions. 18:26:11 De Carla Schulte-Fischedick (LaKunaBi) à Tout le monde: thanks for the important informations here in the Chat - unfortunatly it's not possible to copy the chat to read it later again :-( 18:26:23 De Colin Shearn à Tout le monde: Will you be explaining the equipment you are using to collect track/noise data? 18:26:38 De Don Jackson à Tout le monde: Reacted to "Will you be explaini..." with 👍 18:26:40 De Don Jackson à Tout le monde: Removed a 👍 reaction from "Will you be explaini..." 18:26:53 De Don Jackson à Tout le monde: Reacted to "Will you be explaini..." with ➕ 18:27:38 De Colin Shearn à Tout le monde: Reacted to "Will you be explaini..." with ➕ 18:28:01 De EMFIETZI ELEFTHERIA à Tout le monde: @Carla: I think my dear that this is possible. Ask Mrs Lazarsky. 18:28:26 De Colin Shearn à Tout le monde: Replying to "Will you be explaini..." And where to get it from 18:28:59 De MK à Tout le monde: there is limited info re. both on the EANS site 18:30:16 De Don Jackson à Tout le monde: In the US, here is an alliance of local groups focused on advocacy at the national/federal level: https://aviationimpactedcommunities.org 18:31:03 De Gretl Gallicchio à Tout le monde: Reacted to "In the US, here is a..." with 👍 18:33:45 De Jeff Lewis à Tout le monde: 'Reverse Thrust' is yet another precise example of how industry adds a procedure or technology that gains a shred of added profit, while industry and regulators totally ignore the added impacts imposed. Another excellent example is the reality that, to reduce climate impacts substantially, all the airlines need to do is slow down a small fraction. 18:34:18 De Dominique Lazarski à Tout le monde: reverse thrusts are also used to avoid pounding too much on the brakes as especially with low-cost airlines which need to rotate very quickly, they have to wait until brakes have cooled down before leaving again, and it takes time... 18:35:15 De Jeff Lewis à Tout le monde: A similar example is in recreational flying, for skydivers. To expedite climb rates, they modify the propeller... faster climb and MUCH louder impact. The U.S. regular (FAA) continues to be tone-deaf to this impact, fails to regulate against impacts. 18:36:41 De Don Jackson à Tout le monde: @george-theodosiou: please provide reference to “ADS-C” (if I understood your comment) 18:38:45 De Jeff Lewis à Tout le monde: Protecting private jet passengers should not be justification for blocking ADS-B data. The data is about the tail number, and offers no indication of WHO is actually on board that aircraft. And, argued a bit differently, the very fact these aircraft are using OUR airspace and OUR ATC systems, impacting thousands at any moment, clearly we should be able to know precisely what each tail number is doing at all times. 18:39:15 De Claudio Bisani à Tout le monde: Please, what does ADSP stand for? 18:39:26 De Elaine Miller à Tout le monde: Reacted to "Protecting private j..." with 👍 18:39:38 De Claudio Bisani à Tout le monde: B! 18:39:52 De Gretl Gallicchio à Tout le monde: Reacted to "Protecting private j..." with 👍 18:40:26 De Claudio Bisani à Tout le monde: thank you 18:40:31 De Jeff Lewis à Tout le monde: Realistically, the most elite wealth on this planet is so entitled to so many flight operations, they can easily ensure nobody knows which flight or tail number they are on. Plus, routinely, the actual data is delayed by a few minutes, to prevent potential shoot-downs by rogue personnel on the ground. 18:40:34 De Martin Peachey à Tout le monde: ADS is Automatic Dependent Surveillance. 18:40:49 De Bob à Tout le monde: Can anyone comment on the possibility to change behaviour in aviation using own measurements and such databases? I experience no influence whatsoever in my attempts to address problem of noise. 18:41:45 De Don Jackson à Tout le monde: Replying to "Protecting private j..." Agreed. In the US, driving on public roads is a “privledge” not a “right”, Drivers must be licensed, and vehicles must be registerd. We should insisit that ALL aircraft using public airspace provide ADSB and registration. There should be no right to privacy. Need legislative changes to do make this happen 18:42:29 De Dorinne Tye à Tout le monde: Reacted to "Protecting private j..." with 👍 18:42:48 De Gretl Gallicchio à Tout le monde: Replying to "Protecting private j..." 👍 18:43:52 De Claudio Bisani à Tout le monde: Reacted to "ADS is Automatic Dep..." with 👍 18:44:29 De Bob à Tout le monde: Ban of night flights, for when to when? 23:00-07:00H? 18:44:51 De Don Jackson à Tout le monde: Replying to "Protecting private j..." The combination of the FAA Aircraft Registry database coupled with ADS-B is highly valuable. In the US, the registration info about non-US-registered-aircraft is lacking. The US should require that non-US-aircraft flying in US airspace provide public registaration info 18:45:34 De Jeff Lewis à Tout le monde: Replying to "Protecting private j..." In the U.S., we have a growing problem of 'aviation bullying', where rogue general aviation pilots use their airplane to target activists, etc. We get no help from FAA in stopping this. Clearly, we should have a federal regulator that acts for the entire nation, responding to legitimate complaints by using ADS-B to bring rogue pilots under control. 18:45:47 De Don Jackson à Tout le monde: Reacted to "Here in the U.S., ou..." with 👍 18:46:45 De Don Jackson à Tout le monde: Reacted to "In the U.S., we have..." with 👍 18:46:55 De Gretl Gallicchio à Tout le monde: Replying to "Protecting private j..."👍 18:47:00 De Jeff Lewis à Tout le monde: Replying to "Protecting private j..." BTW, that U.S. aircraft database... the vast majority of private aircraft are registered under opaque LLC's and other legal entities, to block any transparency as to who actually owns that plane. 18:47:10 De Bob à Tout le monde: Schiphol 'suggested' a night flight ban, but only from 01:00-05:00h, leaving only 4 h of undisturbed sleep! 18:47:36 De MK à Tout le monde: that's ridiculous 18:47:53 De Bob à Tout le monde: Replying to "Schiphol 'suggested'..." My view too!!! 18:50:04 De Bob à Tout le monde: I there a noticeable difference between the noise data from aircraft manufacturers used in calculation models and the real perceived levels? Any references on this? 18:50:36 De Jeff Lewis à Tout le monde: Replying to "Schiphol 'suggested'..." ...ridiculous, yes, but 4hrs more than we can achieve here in the U.S. Industry and the faux-regulator collaborate intensively to brainwash the general public to think it would be a bad idea to allow any curfews, any limits on operations per hour, even any local control. The result, in the U.S., is one flight school, one airline, one skydive operator is afforded nearly unlimited use, at whatever hours they dictate, with zero regard for impacts (those are protected by FAA!). Is it any surprise we have growing 'aviation bullying'? 18:50:58 De Gretl Gallicchio à Tout le monde: Replying to "Protecting private j..." Yes, even our local ULCC commercial airline (Avelo) lists its 737s as belonging to a bank as trustee. And not even the bank that owns Avelo. 18:51:18 De Don Jackson à Tout le monde: Replying to "Will you be explaini..." In my work with the MONA project, we use sound-level monitors from: https://convergenceinstruments.com/pc/sound-level-meter-data-loggers/ and use Raspberry PI single-board-computers with ADS-B receiver hardware (we add software to capture all the ADS-B messages and send them to our own servers for archival storage). https://flightaware.com/adsb/piaware/build/ Please see my paper/video (referenced above) for further details 18:51:51 De Elaine Miller à Tout le monde: Reacted to "...ridiculous, yes, ..." with 👍 18:52:05 De Gretl Gallicchio à Tout le monde: Reacted to "...ridiculous, yes, ..." with 👍 18:52:33 De EMFIETZI ELEFTHERIA GR à Tout le monde: Reacted to "In my work with the ..." with 👍 18:52:51 De Bob à Tout le monde: Replying to "Schiphol 'suggested'..." I recognise this: see @SaveSchiphol on Twitter. Same arguments! 18:53:20 De Jeff Lewis à Tout le monde: Reacted to "In my work with the ..." with 👍 18:54:31 De David Hilton à Tout le monde: QC counts are measure under very controlled conditions and are nothing to do with the real world. An aircraft heavily loaded will make more noise on take off than a lightly laden plane. 18:55:57 De Dr. Alexander Araya López à Tout le monde: They can still land in Turkey and from there flight back to Europe, noise will be displaced to Istanbul and emissions will rise due to longer routes… 18:56:14 De Dr. Alexander Araya López à Tout le monde: Fly back* 18:57:25 De Jeff Lewis à Tout le monde: What Arline points out is true... hours controls in Europe will impact the transatlantic flight timing. A big positive: it will compel all airlines (dominated by U.S. carriers) to restructure their schedules, to fit the new restrictions. They are long overdue to do this, anyway; they need to scale back severely, for climate reasons, as well as to mitigate impacts at major international hub airports like KORD, KJFK, etc. 18:58:57 De Sven Brun à Tout le monde: What distance is the EPNL values for noise in Noise Certification calculated from? 19:00:06 De Jeff Lewis à Tout le monde: In the U.S. airlines have designed schedules to use the aircraft on long overnight 'redeye' flights from west coast to east coast. Often departing between 11PM and 1AM on west coast. Why? To maximize use of that asset; if they can add just one more flight per day, per aircraft, it bumps up profits. Key question is, should airline corporate profits trump the public right to a quiet airport NOT allowing departures after say 11PM? 19:01:48 De Jeff Lewis à Tout le monde: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_flying_restrictions 19:02:01 De Sven Brun à Tout le monde: Reacted to "793157B8-4D34-4E22-A8BC-A56F24479F0C_1_105_c.jpeg" with 👍🏻 19:02:18 De Sven Brun à Tout le monde: Reacted to "point de mesure certification bruit.jpg" with 👍🏻 19:02:35 De Carla Schulte-Fischedick (LaKunaBi) à Tout le monde: so, how we could get the Chat ? would it be send arround? 19:03:02 De Pierre Lachapelle à Tout le monde: Thank you very much for this session 19:03:03 De Jeff Lewis à Tout le monde: Thanks Dominique! 19:03:13 De Carla Schulte-Fischedick (LaKunaBi) à Tout le monde: Reacted to "so, how we could get..." with 👍 19:03:26 De Gretl Gallicchio à Tout le monde: Double thanks, Dominique!! And all of UECNA! 19:03:34 De Carla Schulte-Fischedick (LaKunaBi) à Tout le monde: Reacted to "Thanks Dominique!" with 👍 19:03:38 De Helen Kirk, NWLTF à Tout le monde: Brilliant, so helpful thx 19:04:04 De Helen Kirk, NWLTF à Tout le monde: Reacted to "so, how we could get…" with 👍 19:04:27 De Carla Schulte-Fischedick (LaKunaBi) à Tout le monde: Reacted to "Double thanks, Domin..." with 👍 19:04:30 De Carla Schulte-Fischedick (LaKunaBi) à Tout le monde: Reacted to "Brilliant, so helpfu..." with 👍 19:04:39 De MK à Tout le monde: thank you all for the great session, I'll try and circulate EANS in my community 19:04:55 De Elaine Miller à Tout le monde: Thank you to all. Very interesting conversation and very informative. A special thanks to Dominique and John for doing an outstanding job as usual. 19:05:03 De EMFIETZI ELEFTHERIA GR à Tout le monde: Reacted to "Thank you to all. V..." with 👍 19:05:09 De Jeff Lewis à Tout le monde: Reacted to "Thank you to all. V..." with 👍 19:05:13 De EMFIETZI ELEFTHERIA GR à Tout le monde: Reacted to "thank you all for th..." with 👍 19:05:24 De EMFIETZI ELEFTHERIA GR à Tout le monde: Reacted to "Brilliant, so helpfu..." with 👍 19:05:28 De EMFIETZI ELEFTHERIA GR à Tout le monde: Reacted to "Double thanks, Domin..." with 👍 19:05:38 De Bob à Tout le monde: Cheers and thx 19:05:39 De Jeff Lewis à Tout le monde: Way to go Frankfurt, setting the way with that curfew. 19:06:05 De Claudio Bisani à Tout le monde: Bye 19:07:05 De Robert Buick à Tout le monde: George, Are the kgs of fuel savings for larger aircraft available?